Knots... Knots and more knots!

Climbing, ice cascades, speed climbing....

Knots... Knots and more knots!

New postby Taky on Sat 20 May 2006 07:08

I love knots... always fascinated by them, and keep trying to learn more.

My costumers and own live use to hang from them: so I practice a lot until I could do most of them with one hand on my back while on the dark. Underwater with out googles is quite interesting too!

This is one of my favorites... you can change the length of the rope on a 1/2 ratio. It means you can get a rope pretty dam tight with out the need to tie the ends... and it can be changed at any time to suit the needs.

You need to know the bowline and the seven... both good to know knots so I'll remind those two first.

The bowline:

Is a pretty special knot. It has many faces and you may not always recognise him: did you realised that a fishing net is knoted with bowlines?

Is the only knot I know that can be easily released after being under high tensions, so it was used to link a harness to a climbing rope. Sadly the bowline doesn't hold well opposite tensions exerted on the loop it forms. A famous French climber spend one of the first ever helicopter mountain rescues, holding the the loose end of his harness knot with his teeth while hovering above Chamonix: he clipped the cable on to the loop, and under the load the knot started to slip away. Since, this knot is not homologate by the UUIA to be used in personal protection... So never use a simple bowline on a harness...NEVER!

Still is a a great knot to be used for everything else, so is one of those you should be able to tie in any given condition.

There are many ways to do it, and an infinity of variations: I'll try later to picture as much variations as I know, and I hope your input will bring new ones.

Step 1:

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Step 2:

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Step 3:

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Step 4:

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The Seven.

Is a handy way to take a loop on the middle of a rope. Is tidy and pretty, but does weaken a bit the rope, so is only to be used on low risk situations. Is directional, so the resulting loop as a proper working direction.

It as two big brothers doing the same job, but they'll get they own posts.

After being under high loads or wet it can be tricky to release.

Two important points:

-The starting loop goes in the opposite direction you want the working loop.
- As you form the starting loop, one of the ropes must stay on the inside of the loop (picture).

Step1:

Make sure the starting loop goes on the oposite direction you want the working loop.

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Step 2:

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Step 3:

Notice that on one side the working loop and the main rope are hold together under one of the building loops...

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Step 4:

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And now if you put them together you have this:

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The end big loop goes around the object you want to tie your rope to, and by pulling the two bottom segments (on the picture the ones going in and out the seven) on opposite directions you can change the length of the knot with great force.

Let me know how it goes!

I have more knots to post... and I'm sure [you] have a lot to share about this subject... so get the camera, some rope, bark, roots or anything else and do some pictures for all of us!
Last edited by Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 11:15, edited 5 times in total.
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New postby sencaus on Sat 20 May 2006 21:24

The "Seven" is very reliable and the knot with versatile field of use.
Between the other, I've tested it on the small diameter Super-Lines.
The disadvantage with these fishing lines is that they are very prone to cut itself right on the knot area, especially in wet condition.
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New postby Taky on Sun 21 May 2006 03:15

Fishing knots are different than the ones used in climbing... I don't want to see a climber trying to snell a carabiner, so let's open a tread on the right forum!
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New postby Taky on Sun 21 May 2006 03:45

The Butterfly:

A great knot to get a loop from your main line. Is bidirectional, so the working loop is free to change angle while is under load.
Reduces quite a bit the strength of your main line.

This method is fool prof, but once you finish make sure that on one side the two mainlines are parallel, while on the other side they cross over. If they both cross, or are parallel you are in trouble... so start over!

Step1:

Starting along your arm, do two loops around your hand

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Step2:

Then the third in between the two first.

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Step3:

Then you grab the loop closer to the tip of your fingers, and pull it over the other two.

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Step4:

And then under the two loops, until it goes out facing the fingers. Then you can tidy things up.

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Step5:

One side parallel!

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Step6:

One side crossing over each other.

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If someone explain to me how to make miniatures, I'll edit everything so is easier to browse!

It may pay to make a thread for each knot... let me know if you think it would be a better arrangement.
Last edited by Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
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New postby sencaus on Sun 21 May 2006 06:15

I'm affraid that I didn't understand the meaning of "miniatures"...
Does it means the smaller images or somethin' other?
I think that your pictures are very good and I would not like to have them smaller. :boohoo:
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New postby Taky on Sun 21 May 2006 06:25

As I said before, a bowline as many variations... this is one of them.

Some people think this is safe enough to be used on a harness... up to them, but again is not a homologate knot by the UUIA. It always seem easier to make a sloppy knot before the climb: as your forearms cramp and you see meters of rope accumulating below your feet, you'll be more than glad to have done a trusty double eight (my next post) and be wearing a helmet.

If anyone needs it, I'll do this knot step by step... but with the picture and a bit of playing around you should be able to find out by yourself. Both loops don't need tohave hte same lenght. This is the knot I use to pull up my bag up the wall... is easy to oppen in any conditions.

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Then is the fishing net knot, that I use instead of buttons a bit everywhere. For example to hold the seat of my kayak, my climbing rope to the top of my pack and in many other places I try to get rid of the ugly plastic buckles...

Step 1:

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Step2:

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Step3:

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And again is just a bowline (did the picture the wrong way around... I'll edit that as soon as I can):

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Last edited by Taky on Sun 21 May 2006 10:03, edited 1 time in total.
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New postby Taky on Sun 21 May 2006 06:53

miniatures are thumbnails, or a small sized picture you can click to see the full sized picture. This way people on dialup have a chance to enjoy the thread...
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New postby ssj on Tue 23 May 2006 00:00

Great knot representations!
Steve
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The double Eight, or UUIA harness knot.

New postby Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 01:56

Thanks guys :thumb!: , but you need to try out and let me know if you get them right.


The double Eight, the UUIA harness knot, nearly the most important of all.

Is done starting from a single eight, and reinserting the end rope along the knot to form a loop. Is extremely safe and there is no way it could get open by accident. His resistance range around the 75-80%, and it can be difficult to open after a fall.

Is important to keep knots tidy, this way they are easy to check out. If the knot is a mess, even if in theory it could be right, we consider it wrong, and need to be done again until it looks like on the last pictures.

This is the formed loop ( a big loop, on a harness you get it as small as possible):

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This is what you start with:

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The end rope is reinserted on the inside. You need practice to know the amount of rope you need at the end to form your loop the right size:

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Now our working end goes over the top:

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And now on the inside. follow well the way to rope is inserted, it guaranties a perfect knot at the end:

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this time the working end goes underneath:

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last step is to exit the rope on the outside of the last loop left (no picture, but is a logic step if you follow the rope that exits from the knot), and tighten the knot.
This is how the top face should look like:

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And this is how the underneath should look like (the same!):

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If it doesn't look like on the last two pictures, you can try to move around the lops to get it right, or start all over.

A messy knot is hard to identify as safe, and loose some strength.

Once you become good, and if you want to master this knot, get you hands on your back and try again :blind:
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New postby sencaus on Wed 24 May 2006 02:56

That's a good one, Pablo! It is my favourite loop-knot.

Like I said before, the measuring with an electronic dynamometer showed that this is the strongest loop-knot for sport-fishing monofilaments and also, it's very good for super-lines.
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The Indian Knot...

New postby Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 10:23

The Indian:

Is a hard to master knot, but is the strongest knot I know to take a loop out of a rope.

Is directional, so be aware witch side your are aiming for.

Is the right knot to build a flying fox. At the loop you instal one end of your pulley system to tension the rig.

A lot of steps, but as I said earlier this knot is really not an easy one to memorize.


This time you start a loop on the same direction you want your end loop to be:

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step2:

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step3:

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step4:

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Top view:

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under view:

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New postby Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 10:56

The bugs bunny:

I like this one a lot, is a fun knot (geek!), useful to make a double and strong knot at the end of your rope.

Is a great and safe way to set fixed ropes on multiple anchors (Both "ears" should ideally form an angle of less than 60º).

Is easy to make, and to remember:

Start with a loop made from a simple knot (cow tail knot):

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fold the main loop to form both ears:

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You insert the end loop thought the simple knot:

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Then it goes around both "ears":

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and back on to the back (!):

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and finally you tie the knot (!!!):

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both ears can have different lengths, but I'd let you figure this one out:

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Last edited by Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 11:32, edited 1 time in total.
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New postby Taky on Wed 24 May 2006 11:18

Sencaus, Is one of my favourites too :yup:

The "Nine" is the stronger in dynamic and static ropes... close to 96%. I'll post it soon, but is just an eight with another turn. Is what we use to mount a "flying fox" durring rescue opperations.

Knots react really differently deppending on the rope itself. is not the same a 12mm static rope, than a 0.6 mono, or even a 0.08mm mono! so only testing and experience can dictate the best use for each material.
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New postby mcniac on Wed 24 May 2006 15:25

very good, i like the way you are showing the knots :), i even learned a few ;)

Esteban
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